alt.education

On Sep 15, 11:28 pm, Dave Oldridge
wrote:
> Martin Phipps wrote innews: =
6050@ :
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 15, 7:24 am, Dave Oldridge
> > wrote:
> >> Martin Phipps wrote
> >> innews:
> > 8...@ :
>
> >> > On Sep 14, 5:12 pm, Dave Oldridge
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> Martin Phipps wrote
> >> >> innews: @ :
>
> >> >> > On Sep 13, 10:04 am, Jd wrote:
>
> >> >> >> But you don't believe the Bible so quit pretending.
>
> >> >> > Who's pretending? The Bible is nothing but lies from beginning
> >> >> > to end. Do you think you earn our respect when you spread those
> >> >> > lies?!
>
> >> >> That's going a bit far, Martin. The lies are not in the Bible so
> >> >> much as in the addlepated brains of those claiming to actually be
> >> >> able to interpret it.
>
> >> > So the lies in the Bible are only lies when people pretend they are
> >> > true? Fair enough.
>
> >> You haven't shown that any Bible writer intended deception.
>
> > /
>
> > "For if the truth of God hath more abounded by my lie unto his glory,
> > why yet am I also adjudged a sinner?" (St. Paul, Romans )
>
> > "How it may be Lawful and Fitting to use Falsehood as a Medicine, and
> > for the Benefit of those who Want to be Deceived." (Bishop Eusebius,
> > the official propagandist for Constantine, 12th Book of Evangelical
> > Preparation)
>
> > "We shall introduce into this history in general only those events
> > which may be useful first to ourselves and afterwards to
> > posterity." (Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, Vol. 8, chapter 2).
>
> > "Do you see the advantage of deceit? ...
>
> > For great is the value of deceit, provided it be not introduced with a
> > mischievous intention. In fact action of this kind ought not to be
> > called deceit, but rather a kind of good management, cleverness and
> > skill, capable of finding out ways where resources fail, and making up
> > for the defects of the mind ...
>
> > And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits
> > by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course
> > has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived."
>
> > (John Chrysostom, 5th century theologian and erstwhile bishop of
> > Constantinople, Treatise On The Priesthood, Book 1)
>
> > 'Clearly the Christians have used ... myths ... in fabricating the
> > story of Jesus' birth ... It is clear to me that the writings of the
> > Christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough
> > constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction.'
> > - Celsus (On The True Doctrine, c178 AD)
>
> > 'Only lies have our fathers handed down to us, emptiness in which
> > there is nothing of any avail!' - Jeremiah
>
> > "Many things have been inserted by our ancestors in the speeches of
> > our Lord which, though put forth under his name, agree not with his
> > faith; especially since - as already it has been often proved - these
> > things were written not by Christ, nor [by] his apostles, but a long
> > while after their assumption, by I know not what sort of half Jews,
> > not even agreeing with themselves, who made up their tale out of
> > reports and opinions merely, and yet, fathering the whole upon the
> > names of the apostles of the Lord or on those who were supposed to
> > follow the apostles, they maliciously pretended that they had written
> > their lies and conceits according to them." - Faustus, the Manichean
> > bishop
>
> > 'The Church forgery mill did not limit itself to mere writings but
> > for
> > centuries cranked out thousands of phony "relics" of its "Lord,"
> > "Apostles" and "Saints" ... There were at least 26 'authentic' burial
> > shrouds scattered throughout the abbeys of Europe, of which the Shroud
> > of Turin is just one ... At one point, a number of churches claimed
> > the one foreskin of Jesus, and there were enough splinters of the
> > "True Cross" that Calvin said the amount of wood would make "a full
> > load for a good ship." ' (Acharya S, The Christ Conspiracy)
>
> > "We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to
> > be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."
> > - Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556), the tireless zealot for papal authority
> > - he was the founder of the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits)
>
> > "What harm would it do, if a man told a good strong lie for the sake
> > of the good and for the Christian church ... a lie out of necessity, a
> > useful lie, a helpful lie, such lies would not be against God, he
> > would accept them."
> > - Martin Luther (Cited by his secretary, in a letter in Max Lenz, ed.,
> > Briefwechsel Landgraf Phillips des Grossm=FCthigen von Hessen mit Bucer,
> > vol. I.)
>
> > "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they
> > should believe a lie." - 2 Thessalonians
>
> > 'The forgery of pious documents of every imaginable character was
> > among the most constant and zealous activities of the holy
> > propagandists of the Christian Faith, from the beginning to the
> > critical era when forgeries were no longer possible or profitable.' -
> > Joseph Wheless (1930)
>
> > "Unsigned works are a peculiar Christian phenomenon, in works with a
> > dogmatic, apologetic, and propagandistic aim - in other words, works
> > already suspect, and thus made even more so by an author's anonymity."
> > - Richard Carrier
>
> > "In reality, the Neronian persecution never occurred. It is a fiction
> > of the Church, invented for its greater glory." (Arthur Drews, The
> > Legend of St Peter, p63)
>
> > "It is usual for the sacred historian to conform himself to the
> > generally accepted opinion of the masses in his time.' - St Jerome
> > ( ., XXVI, 98; XXIV, 855).
>
> > 'There is nothing so easy as by sheer volubility to deceive a common
> > crowd or an uneducated congregation.' - St. Jerome (Epistle. lii, 8;
> > p. 93.)
>
> > "There are actually some 200 gospels, epistles and other books
> > concerning the life of Jesus Christ. Writing such material was a
> > popular literary form, particularly in the 2nd century. The pious
> > fantasies competed with Greek romantic fiction. Political
> > considerations in the late 2nd century led to the selection of just
> > four approved gospels and the rejection of others. After three
> > centuries of wrangling 23 other books were accepted by the Church as
> > divinely inspired. The rest were declared 'pious frauds'. In truth,
> > the whole lot belongs to a genre of literary FICTION." -
> > /
>
> Interesting. Your quote-mining tactics are pretty much identical those
> of the creationists. Ironic!

And yet you're missing the bottom line here: I've been told by
Christians that Christians never lie. This is, of course, merely yet
another Christian lie.

Martin